The coercion was intense and often cruel. My conversion was very traumatic and not because I was so “cut” by the cross, but because I was thoroughly bullied and shamed into it. That’s another reason I had to leave the ICOC and start over. I’m not trying to blame anyone in particular, it’s just the way it was done; I’m happy to be free of it.
This really made me think. When I started questioning the church’s methods, including the Bible study series, I thought of the Ethiopian eunuch. He was immediately baptized after only one “study,” and he got to decide that he was ready. He didn’t have to prove his repentance or brokenness to Philip first, or display the “correct” emotional response.
I was never very effective at converting people. Heck, I’m not even very good at bringing people to church with me. As a result, I internalized the church’s pervasive messages of shame about “not bearing fruit.” I was told, “that’s not my gift“ is not a valid excuse. But you know what? It really isn’t my gift!!! Ironically, I was more than once denied the joy of being able to use my actual gifts. Perhaps if we had all been allowed to more freely use the unique gifts God had given us within the community instead of being forced into a man-made mold, we would have borne more lasting fruit together.
This also made me think deeper about the idea of an individual relationship with God versus a more communal one. It is hard for me to imagine what that would look like in today’s Western society, where individualism is so deeply systemic. The church tried to combat that individualism by force, which wasn’t healthy, either. I think you are correct, though. At the same time, while I believe God designed us for community, and I have personally longed for a sense of safe community, due to my own brain wiring and past experiences, the idea also makes me wince just a little.
I've been thinking about this a lot, and I really don't like that the church is the gatekeeper to baptism. They always loved saying that we were imitating the first century church, but when did the first Christians do Kip McKean's bible study series with people before they were allowed to be baptized? What about the 3k in one day? That would never happen here.
I'm with you there, Nadine. I love reading your posts. You so often put words on my thoughts and feelings. I've been pondering the same scriptures, wondering where/when things changed and became individual studies.
Earlier today I was thinking about the Matt 12:48 scripture. Thank you for opening my eyes to a new way to understand that scripture. It makes more sense the new way! But it also sheddes a new light on how Western society has "gone downhill" and created "lonely people" by encouraging individualism.
I understand but it makes sense. Instead of being curious why someone like me would call things out, the leaders just shut down and bury their heads in the sand.
There was an older Christian who had traveled to remoter parts of our region and preached in villages and baptized whole groups He returned periodically to encourage them. He was part of the ICOC and originally the "mainline" church. I think he had done this as part of the mainline church. He was labelled as someone who was divisive, arrogant, independent and no one considered his outreach ligitmate as they couldn't be managed. He was allowed to speak but eventually even that ended. He was by no means perfect but what he did was not wrong. Years later leadership scratches their heads about how to build a village to village ministry in our part of South Africa which has massive rural populations.
The coercion was intense and often cruel. My conversion was very traumatic and not because I was so “cut” by the cross, but because I was thoroughly bullied and shamed into it. That’s another reason I had to leave the ICOC and start over. I’m not trying to blame anyone in particular, it’s just the way it was done; I’m happy to be free of it.
So sorry. My conversion was very chill in 1983, but in later years, as the system developed, it became much more structured and rigid.
This really made me think. When I started questioning the church’s methods, including the Bible study series, I thought of the Ethiopian eunuch. He was immediately baptized after only one “study,” and he got to decide that he was ready. He didn’t have to prove his repentance or brokenness to Philip first, or display the “correct” emotional response.
I was never very effective at converting people. Heck, I’m not even very good at bringing people to church with me. As a result, I internalized the church’s pervasive messages of shame about “not bearing fruit.” I was told, “that’s not my gift“ is not a valid excuse. But you know what? It really isn’t my gift!!! Ironically, I was more than once denied the joy of being able to use my actual gifts. Perhaps if we had all been allowed to more freely use the unique gifts God had given us within the community instead of being forced into a man-made mold, we would have borne more lasting fruit together.
This also made me think deeper about the idea of an individual relationship with God versus a more communal one. It is hard for me to imagine what that would look like in today’s Western society, where individualism is so deeply systemic. The church tried to combat that individualism by force, which wasn’t healthy, either. I think you are correct, though. At the same time, while I believe God designed us for community, and I have personally longed for a sense of safe community, due to my own brain wiring and past experiences, the idea also makes me wince just a little.
I've been thinking about this a lot, and I really don't like that the church is the gatekeeper to baptism. They always loved saying that we were imitating the first century church, but when did the first Christians do Kip McKean's bible study series with people before they were allowed to be baptized? What about the 3k in one day? That would never happen here.
Right. They’d have to have 3,000 individual “counting the cost” meetings. And not all of them would pass the test.
ICOC: “You must be baptized to be saved.”
Also ICOC: “Your baptism must happen in our church, or it doesn’t count.”
Also ICOC: “Sorry, we can’t baptize you because you don’t seem like you’re ready.”
The sermon in Thames Valley yesterday was about being more “collective” than individualistic. Couldn’t help but think of your article 🥰
Was this by TJ or someone
Else? ❤️
I'm with you there, Nadine. I love reading your posts. You so often put words on my thoughts and feelings. I've been pondering the same scriptures, wondering where/when things changed and became individual studies.
Earlier today I was thinking about the Matt 12:48 scripture. Thank you for opening my eyes to a new way to understand that scripture. It makes more sense the new way! But it also sheddes a new light on how Western society has "gone downhill" and created "lonely people" by encouraging individualism.
Wow, Nadine, you translated my thoughts, ICOC experience, and conflicted feelings into WORDS. Thank you. This gave me so much clarity!
ICOC should be discussing this at staff meetings and gatherings. I've been feeling this for a long time, part of my deconstructing.
My posts are being discussed in some churches' staff meetings. Now they need to say it out loud!
Agreed let
Me no if ur being discussed in London 😊🙏🏻
The only thing that happened is that one of the regions in London invited my husband to speak and then disinvited him because of my blog 😂
That is very discouraging to hear,
I understand but it makes sense. Instead of being curious why someone like me would call things out, the leaders just shut down and bury their heads in the sand.
Not that I’ve heard!
There was an older Christian who had traveled to remoter parts of our region and preached in villages and baptized whole groups He returned periodically to encourage them. He was part of the ICOC and originally the "mainline" church. I think he had done this as part of the mainline church. He was labelled as someone who was divisive, arrogant, independent and no one considered his outreach ligitmate as they couldn't be managed. He was allowed to speak but eventually even that ended. He was by no means perfect but what he did was not wrong. Years later leadership scratches their heads about how to build a village to village ministry in our part of South Africa which has massive rural populations.