Nadine.... Thank you very much for being vocal and acknowledging the wrongs in ICOC. And now, making a stand and calling spade a spade. I wish more ICOC leaders are like you. Much respect!
"If the ICOC were not a cult, the reaction would be different. It would be one of concern and curiosity instead of one of defensiveness. We should ask the question, “Why do so many think we are a cult? What can we change?”, instead of vilifying those who point out that the emperor has no clothes. The reaction is proof in itself."
I had a conversation in 2022 with a friend at the time, who was also trying to wrestle with the ICOC's issues. I told him that I thought the ICOC could prove that it's not a cult by abolishing the name, dissolving, and allowing the individual churches to become separate, and rebuild relationships autonomously, asynchronously, but most importantly, locally. Cult or not, the name is synonymous with so much hurt and structural issues no one seems intent on solving. So why not try something new? The way he snapped at me at just the mere proposal of such a thing left me speechless, saying things like he would've never worked with me if he knew this was what I thought of the ICOC. It was easily more shocking to me than being corned by elders with a disfellowshipment.
If I were to talk to him again, I would ask why he reacted so viscerally. Why are we so afraid to try something new? Why do we prefer to stay stagnant, bulldozing through with our familiar wrongs? I think it lies back with the first identifier: glorious purpose. Allow me to push back slightly here because I do believe wanting to change the world is in no way a bad thing. If anything, we need MORE people trying to imagine a better future and trying things out to hopefully bring a better world to fruition. But in truth, I've only seen the ICOC want to change the world in their image, not necessarily God's image. That would require opening up the ICOC to a lot of realities I don't think its congregants are ready to confront. So, yes, I think it's noble to want the world to be a safer, loving, more communal place. I also think it's just as noble to pivot or abandon a dream when the execution sours.
When Malcolm X realized the revolutionary Nation of Islam was becoming calloused in their capacity for harm, Malcolm left and organized with other oppressed minority groups. When Mike Africa Jr realized that MOVE had members that, for all its pro-indigenous, anti-capitalist education programs, committed child abuse, he left the group to start a new organization in its wake. Throughout history, we have a ton of examples of people willing to course correct to serve a greater humanitarian mission. If anything, the unwillingness to pivot and assess damages makes me wonder what the ICOC's real purpose was all along.
To this day I hurt over the way Wound of my People were treated. It was a significant milestone in my journey and gave me a lot to think about. I am so sorry for the way the young people who spoke up were bullied. As a leadership and as older people we should have engaged and listened. What you guys were saying had so much truth in it. Instead of engaging in productive dialogue with the young people, the older generation vilified you and ostracized you. Bad move. I know you and your friends were badly hurt by that experience.
I'm sure many people do not have the best reaction to hearing the claim that the ICOC is a cult. I'm sorry that the reaction you've personally experienced has been so volatile. I myself disagree with the grand statement that the ICOC is a cult but I am working on listening to the different takes and experiences people have that lead to that conclusion. I know I don't have all the answers so I'd love to know if you think the connections between churches is something that should be pushed or something optional? Hypothetically, if none of the churches formed relationships after the proposed disbandment of the ICOC, would that be a problem in your view?
Hi again Julien. Actually 99.9% of the feedback I get is very supportive of what I am saying. A few deny it, and that is usually because they have not experienced abuse themselves. I am always glad to hear people have not been abused, but that does not cancel the thousands of stories of trauma and cultish practices. I do not have a solution for the ICOC as a whole. I have appealed for years. My suggestion would be for congregations to go independent if they truly want to reform. We can still love one another, just not be accomplices to religious toxicity. Again just my opinion.
Would you support a network of churches instead? Hypothetically disbanding the leadership structures and having sovereignty but still having opportunities to connect with brothers and sisters around the globe?
I do not consider myself a member of the ICOC anymore so I don’t have an opinion on that. I am more and more drawn to smaller churches, house groups, engagement with the local community, etc. Really trying to imitate Jesus and his daily ministry.
Thank you, Nadine, for sharing this post and your other blogs. Many of us have worked hard, often emotionally, to reach a place where calling the ICOC a cult no longer feels so painful. I truly appreciate your current perspective and the recognition that this acknowledgment is long overdue. That said, I’ll admit there are times when I still feel a lingering sense of resentment. Where were you—and others like you—when so many of us were speaking out, often at great personal cost, only to be met with hostility and abuse? It’s hard not to feel some dissonance when those who were silent for so long are now coming forward.
Each blog you write challenges me to dig deeper into forgiveness, and yet I continue to read. I know it takes real courage to shift perspectives, and I don’t take that lightly. But that shift also brings up the painful memory of the silence that surrounded us when we needed support the most. I don’t have the space here to fully explain all the ways my family and I were hurt, or the depth of what we endured—but we too have the receipts. We’ve carried this weight for so long, and while I’m grateful for the change in narrative now, it’s still hard not to feel the sting of those who remained silent when we so desperately needed allies.
Thank you, Nadine. I hope there comes a time when these apologies are no longer necessary for you. I see your vulnerability and your strength in taking responsibility for your part. While much of what happened was beyond your control, it’s clear that your openness also means grappling with the emotions others have left behind. Your willingness to be open is a powerful step toward healing, even though the weight of it isn’t all yours to carry.
Nadine, you are a loving and brave soul, and I pray that the support you feel most is from God. Thank you! I hope you forgive yourself as much as I pray that those who you hurt forgive you, as well.
In my humble opinion, the defensiveness to the word "cult" has implications on the seeming characteristics of people who fall prey to cult leaders. We don't like to think we could be duped or "dumb" enough to join a cult. It's sad when people think that way. Even the wisest of people have fallen prey to cults. They are designed to feed off of people's sincerities, insecurities, and authentic intentions. It's not the fault of the person who falls prey and I really wish people would adopt a different perspective. I was a member, I'm not dumb, and it is absolutely a cult. I have friends and loved ones there who are spiritual, loving, and wise. It is still a cult.
I definitely stayed beyond my knowledge that it is a cult. Some of us stayed long past the time we discovered something wasn't right because we believed sincerely in the power of God, and that change could happen. I have recently witnessed one of my dearest friends, who has devoted her entire adult life to God and the ICOC be demonized and ostracized for not doing things the ICOC way. It further cemented my belief that the operations of the ICOC have not foundationally changed.
To hear "it's not all churches" was no longer enough for me, so I left. A pedophile grooms one kid in a family to abuse, while leaving the others alone. One child being abused while the others aren't does not negate the person being a pedophile. Systemic racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, classism, sexual assault, sexual harrassment, dishonesty, and pedophilia are pervasive in the ICOC body of churches. When anyone dares to give feedback or point things out regarding any of these things, the response is the same or similar in many of the churches in the South. Not much has changed. The system still operates on a highly sophisticated level, but it is, under the surface, still dysfunctional.
I thank the ICOC for teaching me the foundation of spirituality, but I regret the traumatic racial and sexist experiences endured during that time. I hate that friends were victims of sexual assault. There is so much that could be said here, but what would it really matter.
I don't think I was dumb in searching for God, nor do I feel bad about trusting highly trained (and oftentimes sincere) religious salesmen who I met during my college years. I truly believe my path was still designed by God. I just wish I listened to the Spirit all those years ago when it no longer felt right to be there.
I pray for all those who continue to walk their walk in the body of ICOC fellowships. I hope that you pray for my spiritual journey as well.
Nadine, I hope this article travels far and wide. Thank you for writing it, as well as your previous ones. You have reached people others can't and no doubt will continue to do so.
Leaving aside the question of what labels may apply to the ICOC past or present, it seems irrefutable that there have been alarming practices in the past, some of which continue to the present in some places. It seems like the only way past this is true repentance including a focus on making amends for past wrongs, as Nadine is modeling. It would be great to see the ICOC focus on promoting fruits of the spirit.
I believe the ICOC family of churches must be dismantled. it is simply not good enough to say, "well, not all of us are monsters". if you have a thousand snakes in a pit and only 10 of them are venomous, who will you convince to jump in?
I disagree. If you have a thousand snakes in a pit and only 10 are venomous, that does not make it a pit full of venomous snakes. It also does not mean that you have to manually remove all 1000 snakes. Removing venomous snakes is possible and there’s no doubt that they exist. But disregarding 9990 snakes does not make sense either
From my experience traveling all over the world, my personal guess would be that only about 10% of churches in the ICOC are genuinely pulling away from cultish practices. I also think the number is growing.
And is your perspective that those 10% cannot change the other 90% or is it that the ICOC is too tarnished as a organizational image and needs rebranding?
I think there is a lack of desire to truly change. It is possible to change but one has to want to. In order to do that the leadership would have to face the reality and the spread of the abuse.
Thank you for your words and bravery to speak out. I left over a year ago. I did not fully realize that true hurts of my past in the ICOC would come out gradually and that making the hard decision to leave would not be the hardest part! It is very hard to wrap my mind around the idea that I was in a cult or a cultish church or whatever you want to call it. But facing realities is the only way thru.
Excellent article Nadine, thanks for writing it. I am finding all you write tremendously helpful in navigating my own journey of deconstruction, reconstruction in following Jesus. Much love to you, Mark and family
thanks for saying it loud and clear. I know people have a hard time hearing certain words because they associate it differently. They have emotional attachments and not literal. And surely, "I" could not be involved with this. But yes, just like you, I carry my own guilt for at one time being part of it, and then when I tried to be an agent of change, I found that the "followship" was every bit as much of a problem as anything else. They didn't want things to change in many cases. I was in a position to lead us out of the old ways, and either apathy or rebellion worked against me at every turn.
Thankfully I still see people slowly awakening and walking away. Damaged, but awakening. As always, thanks for speaking up Nadine.
For the last 2 years since I left, I called ICOC a "cult church" and not a "cult", if that makes sense. Cuz cult is a very strong word. I know I've been trying to console myself cuz I've been part of the system for more than 30 years, and it's quite embarrassing to tell my friends that I was a cult member for that long. Moreover, I still have lots of friends and family in ICOC. So it's been quite a journey.
Nadine your voice is powerful. I spent my whole adult life in icoc and never thought of it as a cult. It literally is like drinking the kool aid. Reading this article and coming to grips to what it was, I am in awe that I never saw it as a cult, even when it was destroying my life! And your descriptions accurately identify what was going on in the Boston church of Christ, where I was a member! 💔
Yes, we once exhibited qualities similar to a cult-like church. Now, we're living in a time where we must face the consequences of our past actions. It feels as though our balloon has burst, leaving us deflated and empty. We are working on mending the present, holding on to the hope that in the future, God will forgive us and restore our lives.
The fact that the ICOC leaders and members are focusing on mending the present is the problem. Trying to mend the present while denying the past doesn't work but it gives the illusion that something is being done. And, there is enough in the present to acknowledge and deal with but instead, silence prevails.
Thanks Nadine i left years ago and have no regrets. At the time i did not realize it but it was definitely a cult. You always had to do and be more. It took a long time to get over it and seperate the things thought and the things the Bible actually means. I am glad I did not loose my faith but a lot of people did, though some temporary. Thanks for speaking up and putting it so clearly.
this is Yves Perriard one of the leaders of the Paris icoc i know your brother and his wife very well, woah Nadine glad you had the courage to finally do what i did 30 years ago!!! for me the writing was clearly on the wall back then but even if i knew what was wrong i still had to get rid of a lot of legalism self righteousness and control within the years after i left, this is deep within our nature to want to be like this as i observed this pattern in so many other denominations as well, the icoc just took it to an extreme level, the one thing that eventually helped me quite a lot is to enter into the charismatic dimension of supernatural gifts. when we walk into the power of real NT miracles it forces us to be humble and yet keeps it us excited and passionate ! to be so dependent on God so He can do amazing things that go beyond our own human power is in my view the secret to a more fulfilled life in Christ be blessed and well done !!! welcome to visit us in Israel shalom Yves Perriard
I’m truly empathetic to the experiences of those who have been through much trauma at the hands of the ICOC. There’s no doubt the issues happened and remain. However, labeling the ICOC as a cult seemingly misses the mark. A cult is not just an organization who occasionally displays cultish practices. The ICOC is not uniform in its behavior, stances and actions, it is not a full fledged cult. There are likely many more people who have not experienced cultish behavior with the new version of the ICOC than that have. It mirrors the saying ACAB that all cops are bad. No, not all cops are bad. Some prescient have noble police officers with pure intentions and others dont. That doesn’t mean dismantle the police as we know it. It means reform and working to fix the issues faced because the system, like the ICOC, still does plenty good.
I’m quite sure that you have a much more full, global opinion of the icoc and I fully respect and appreciate that. Being someone in leadership and influential positions gives you a very prominent understanding of what’s going on at the top, you even coordinated several hyc i went on myself. My point lies in the fact that as a member of the icoc, the decisions of leadership at the very top don’t directly trickle down to members all the time. The examples of cult behavior im sure exist in areas at a lower level and they may exist at higher levels to an extent. However, those behaviors are something I’ve never personally seen in several different churches nor heard of from dozens of congregations internationally. Thus, I don’t believe the ICOC can be fully uniform if the behaviors do not match. Hopefully that articulates my viewpoint well. And like everyone has said, thank you Nadine for shedding light on these deep topics
This is fair....but I'd say that ESPECIALLY in Boston, the decisions of leadership do in fact trickle down to members. That's how it works in school systems, military, and corporate environments. Boston campus specifically is big on pushing numbers and they boast about them at every all NE devo I've been to. "We've had ______ baptisms this semester and we're excited to see what God has in store!!!".......*round of thunderous applause*......I am surprised you've never personally seen this behavior, but hopefully it's different in Florida.
Are the retention numbers viewed in the same light? Sure, maybe campus had 100 baptisms in a year, but what about the 40 that left? How many leave right after graduating? What does that say about HOW we study the Bible with people? These are arbitrary numbers, but not totally inaccurate.
It reminds me of car manufactures and recalls. Sure, Ford can flood the market with millions of vehicles, but they have one of the worst recall rates in the world. What does that tell you about the *quality* of said vehicles?
Again, not every region is like this. But it is too common in too many regions just to be swept under the rug.
I’m from Boston, I grew up in the Boston Churches all my life and have been to devos and have dozens of friends living out Boston campus ministry as we speak. I definitely agree it has it’s flaws but Boston is far from a cult. I fully agree that Boston could do a better job of preparing people for discipleship and the rates of falling away is scary high. However, I think a churches flaws does not make it a cult automatically. The description of a cult Mrs. Templer described does not apply to the heavy majority of members in Boston. I personally know the lead evangelist of Boston and I know people in all levels of leadership, none of who embody these traits of a cult. This is not to say Boston is perfect but as a member and looking holistically, it’s innacurate to call Boston as a whole a cult. Not saying other ICOC churches are the same though
Julien, communication is incredibly difficult and challenging to do well. I read what you wrote three times before responding.
The word "cult" can validate many people's experiences--thousands and thousands--and it can also bewilder and alienate many others in the ICOC--perhaps many thousands as well.
Not everyone has (or had)the same experience in the ICOC.
When I work with families I often point out that just because all siblings had the same parents doesn't mean they had the same parents in terms of experience and relationship with those parents.
I would ask you to consider that if someone uses the word "cult" to describe the ICOC to have an ongoing discussion with them, be curious about why they would use that word, and if the core of what they are trying to communicate has enough accuracy to merit attention and further discussion.
You wrote, "The ICOC is not uniform in its behavior, stances and actions..."
I would ask you to consider that the ICOC is uniform in its behavior, stances, and actions, and has a long-standing pattern of being uniform in ways that have wreaked havoc in many lives.
One pattern is ignoring systemic corruption and horrific actions and even denying them. I could give examples, but do I need to?
P.S. Thank you for speaking up. This is an important discussion Nadine has put the spotlight on.
I’m also slightly confused. You said people have different experiences with the ICOC and then in the same message said that it’s entirely uniform. Perhaps i am misunderstanding but this seems contradictory
I understand how this would be confusing. Individual churches are trying to reform but overall the institution remains very cultish. There is still some sort of central leadership, even though it is not as influential as it used to be. But there is still central control to a large extent. The ICOC still hosts global conferences where the teaching is pretty uniform. Again some are trying to change, and I recognize that.
Julien, I could have been more clear. Let me try again.
The ICOC is uniform and has set patterns in many ways but not all ways.
Yet, even when Kip was ruling the ICOC, not all members had the same experience. Not all members have been horrifically abused as many of those who left. That is true today. There are still patterns of abuse in the system and in local churches by local leaders.
What uniformity is there still?
How about how all the local ICOC churches deal with scandal, accusations, reports of abuse and corruption and so on?
I expect that, by far, the ICOC churches will continue to ignore Nadine's exposes' of the ICOC culture and Leadership patterns of lies, hiding things, and protecting abusers. Not a word will be said from the pulpit or on their websites.
Not a single leader is publicly responding to what Nadine has written. All of the public responses regarding the lawsuits have been written by attorneys and none even acknowledge there was abuse and that it was covered up.
That is a uniform pattern. It is intentional.
As Nadine says in comments below: "There is still some sort of central leadership, even though it is not as influential as it used to be. But there is still central control to a large extent. The ICOC still hosts global conferences where the teaching is pretty uniform."
Individual ICOC leaders say often there is no formal ICOC today and no central leadership--that's what is said when they get an uncomfortable question posed to them.
Yet, when they want to dispose of the Portland church and eliminate the influence of Steve and Lisa Johnson, the central leadership makes it happen.
As Nadine says, there is great effort to keep uniform teaching. Any church or leader that deviates from that on any central doctrine will be dealt with by the ICOC central leadership. Just because one person isn't at the helm and clearly recognized doesn't mean the ICOC isn't being steered and led by the leaders today that have the power to act.
Ask Douglas Jacoby if that isn't true.
Ask Steve and Lisa Johnson.
There is uniformity of teaching and uniformity of how to deal with dissenters of that teaching.
(Do you think recognized Teachers in the ICOC have felt free to speak up and go public with their views on things that went against mainstream ICOC teaching? They are afraid to speak up and rightfully so.)
There is uniformity of denying abuse and failing to make amends.
I can name many individuals and families who were horrifically abused by the most senior ICOC leaders. There has never been any accountability for these things, much less justice.
That is a uniform pattern across all ICOC churches.
Just for clarification, the idea that every church in the ICOC is uniform is a false statement. Personally, when I speak of the ICOC, I refer to the collection of churches. That is why I was confused when you said "the ICOC is uniform in its behavior, stances, and action". Perhaps you were referring to something different than I and we had a misunderstanding because of that
I've personally heard, from the pulpit in Boston, denouncing abuse and sin amid the recent allegations. I implore leaders across the ICOC to deny the abuse and to make amends, just as you said.
I don't think he ever left the ICOC. It's my understanding that he makes his living primarily off of ICOC churches and members via his teaching ministry.
I would stand by my statement that the ICOC is not fully uniform. I don’t think it’s fair to say that it is uniform unless you’ve been to every single congregation and seen the similarities. I myself have been to many different congregations and seen drastic differences in the way different churches operate.
I’d like to reiterate that I’m not saying people did not experience cult behavior but labeling an organization from top to bottom and left to right as a cult doesn’t seem to be as accurate of a depiction as possible.
I agree that the ICOC isn't fully uniform. But Nadine has been all around the world over the course of many years. And even in places she has not been, she's still had significant impact. I'd say she has grounds to stand on concerning the similarities she's witnessed. Just my two cents.
Thank you. I am not saying this to brag but I am probably the most connected person globally. I speak with both leaders and regular members all over the world, so I probably have a more accurate picture than anyone in the ICOC. I have indeed traveled all over the globe in the last ten years. Even though I speak and write with conviction, I love the church and the people in it. My goal is not to destroy the church but for the abuse and dysfunction to stop, so that more people don’t get hurt.
I believe with the weight of your experience, more people should listen. I have listened to your podcasts, articles, and blogs and love doing so and learning more from each one of them. I hope my respect for your wisdom and knowledge comes through, even if I disagree with parts of your assessment that contrast my personal experiences
Yes, generalizations are great. My point is that the effects of cult behavior in higher up leadership do not always trickle down so at the top, I fully trust what Nadine is saying. And I am sure it trickles down in some places. But I think there are many examples of it(the cult behavior described) not trickling down and that's important to note.
I get that. I think if more people, including leaders (especially), would admit to the patterns of abuse and how many people have been damaged, and give attention to making amends, more "critics" would agree that there are good things to note as well.
The leaders responded to the H.K. Letter because they knew denying it and ignoring it would be their downfall. That's not so today, so it's easy to ignore the current systemic patterns of corruption and abuse. They ignore such because they can.
Nadine.... Thank you very much for being vocal and acknowledging the wrongs in ICOC. And now, making a stand and calling spade a spade. I wish more ICOC leaders are like you. Much respect!
Thank you for writing this article, Nadine.
"If the ICOC were not a cult, the reaction would be different. It would be one of concern and curiosity instead of one of defensiveness. We should ask the question, “Why do so many think we are a cult? What can we change?”, instead of vilifying those who point out that the emperor has no clothes. The reaction is proof in itself."
I had a conversation in 2022 with a friend at the time, who was also trying to wrestle with the ICOC's issues. I told him that I thought the ICOC could prove that it's not a cult by abolishing the name, dissolving, and allowing the individual churches to become separate, and rebuild relationships autonomously, asynchronously, but most importantly, locally. Cult or not, the name is synonymous with so much hurt and structural issues no one seems intent on solving. So why not try something new? The way he snapped at me at just the mere proposal of such a thing left me speechless, saying things like he would've never worked with me if he knew this was what I thought of the ICOC. It was easily more shocking to me than being corned by elders with a disfellowshipment.
If I were to talk to him again, I would ask why he reacted so viscerally. Why are we so afraid to try something new? Why do we prefer to stay stagnant, bulldozing through with our familiar wrongs? I think it lies back with the first identifier: glorious purpose. Allow me to push back slightly here because I do believe wanting to change the world is in no way a bad thing. If anything, we need MORE people trying to imagine a better future and trying things out to hopefully bring a better world to fruition. But in truth, I've only seen the ICOC want to change the world in their image, not necessarily God's image. That would require opening up the ICOC to a lot of realities I don't think its congregants are ready to confront. So, yes, I think it's noble to want the world to be a safer, loving, more communal place. I also think it's just as noble to pivot or abandon a dream when the execution sours.
When Malcolm X realized the revolutionary Nation of Islam was becoming calloused in their capacity for harm, Malcolm left and organized with other oppressed minority groups. When Mike Africa Jr realized that MOVE had members that, for all its pro-indigenous, anti-capitalist education programs, committed child abuse, he left the group to start a new organization in its wake. Throughout history, we have a ton of examples of people willing to course correct to serve a greater humanitarian mission. If anything, the unwillingness to pivot and assess damages makes me wonder what the ICOC's real purpose was all along.
To this day I hurt over the way Wound of my People were treated. It was a significant milestone in my journey and gave me a lot to think about. I am so sorry for the way the young people who spoke up were bullied. As a leadership and as older people we should have engaged and listened. What you guys were saying had so much truth in it. Instead of engaging in productive dialogue with the young people, the older generation vilified you and ostracized you. Bad move. I know you and your friends were badly hurt by that experience.
I'm sure many people do not have the best reaction to hearing the claim that the ICOC is a cult. I'm sorry that the reaction you've personally experienced has been so volatile. I myself disagree with the grand statement that the ICOC is a cult but I am working on listening to the different takes and experiences people have that lead to that conclusion. I know I don't have all the answers so I'd love to know if you think the connections between churches is something that should be pushed or something optional? Hypothetically, if none of the churches formed relationships after the proposed disbandment of the ICOC, would that be a problem in your view?
Hi again Julien. Actually 99.9% of the feedback I get is very supportive of what I am saying. A few deny it, and that is usually because they have not experienced abuse themselves. I am always glad to hear people have not been abused, but that does not cancel the thousands of stories of trauma and cultish practices. I do not have a solution for the ICOC as a whole. I have appealed for years. My suggestion would be for congregations to go independent if they truly want to reform. We can still love one another, just not be accomplices to religious toxicity. Again just my opinion.
Would you support a network of churches instead? Hypothetically disbanding the leadership structures and having sovereignty but still having opportunities to connect with brothers and sisters around the globe?
I do not consider myself a member of the ICOC anymore so I don’t have an opinion on that. I am more and more drawn to smaller churches, house groups, engagement with the local community, etc. Really trying to imitate Jesus and his daily ministry.
Thank you, Nadine, for sharing this post and your other blogs. Many of us have worked hard, often emotionally, to reach a place where calling the ICOC a cult no longer feels so painful. I truly appreciate your current perspective and the recognition that this acknowledgment is long overdue. That said, I’ll admit there are times when I still feel a lingering sense of resentment. Where were you—and others like you—when so many of us were speaking out, often at great personal cost, only to be met with hostility and abuse? It’s hard not to feel some dissonance when those who were silent for so long are now coming forward.
Each blog you write challenges me to dig deeper into forgiveness, and yet I continue to read. I know it takes real courage to shift perspectives, and I don’t take that lightly. But that shift also brings up the painful memory of the silence that surrounded us when we needed support the most. I don’t have the space here to fully explain all the ways my family and I were hurt, or the depth of what we endured—but we too have the receipts. We’ve carried this weight for so long, and while I’m grateful for the change in narrative now, it’s still hard not to feel the sting of those who remained silent when we so desperately needed allies.
I am so sorry about the pain you went through. I wish I could have been more present in those times. Please forgive me.
Thank you, Nadine. I hope there comes a time when these apologies are no longer necessary for you. I see your vulnerability and your strength in taking responsibility for your part. While much of what happened was beyond your control, it’s clear that your openness also means grappling with the emotions others have left behind. Your willingness to be open is a powerful step toward healing, even though the weight of it isn’t all yours to carry.
Nadine, you are a loving and brave soul, and I pray that the support you feel most is from God. Thank you! I hope you forgive yourself as much as I pray that those who you hurt forgive you, as well.
In my humble opinion, the defensiveness to the word "cult" has implications on the seeming characteristics of people who fall prey to cult leaders. We don't like to think we could be duped or "dumb" enough to join a cult. It's sad when people think that way. Even the wisest of people have fallen prey to cults. They are designed to feed off of people's sincerities, insecurities, and authentic intentions. It's not the fault of the person who falls prey and I really wish people would adopt a different perspective. I was a member, I'm not dumb, and it is absolutely a cult. I have friends and loved ones there who are spiritual, loving, and wise. It is still a cult.
I definitely stayed beyond my knowledge that it is a cult. Some of us stayed long past the time we discovered something wasn't right because we believed sincerely in the power of God, and that change could happen. I have recently witnessed one of my dearest friends, who has devoted her entire adult life to God and the ICOC be demonized and ostracized for not doing things the ICOC way. It further cemented my belief that the operations of the ICOC have not foundationally changed.
To hear "it's not all churches" was no longer enough for me, so I left. A pedophile grooms one kid in a family to abuse, while leaving the others alone. One child being abused while the others aren't does not negate the person being a pedophile. Systemic racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, classism, sexual assault, sexual harrassment, dishonesty, and pedophilia are pervasive in the ICOC body of churches. When anyone dares to give feedback or point things out regarding any of these things, the response is the same or similar in many of the churches in the South. Not much has changed. The system still operates on a highly sophisticated level, but it is, under the surface, still dysfunctional.
I thank the ICOC for teaching me the foundation of spirituality, but I regret the traumatic racial and sexist experiences endured during that time. I hate that friends were victims of sexual assault. There is so much that could be said here, but what would it really matter.
I don't think I was dumb in searching for God, nor do I feel bad about trusting highly trained (and oftentimes sincere) religious salesmen who I met during my college years. I truly believe my path was still designed by God. I just wish I listened to the Spirit all those years ago when it no longer felt right to be there.
I pray for all those who continue to walk their walk in the body of ICOC fellowships. I hope that you pray for my spiritual journey as well.
Great comment Nia. Thank you so much for your support. I am with you.
Nadine, I hope this article travels far and wide. Thank you for writing it, as well as your previous ones. You have reached people others can't and no doubt will continue to do so.
Leaving aside the question of what labels may apply to the ICOC past or present, it seems irrefutable that there have been alarming practices in the past, some of which continue to the present in some places. It seems like the only way past this is true repentance including a focus on making amends for past wrongs, as Nadine is modeling. It would be great to see the ICOC focus on promoting fruits of the spirit.
I believe the ICOC family of churches must be dismantled. it is simply not good enough to say, "well, not all of us are monsters". if you have a thousand snakes in a pit and only 10 of them are venomous, who will you convince to jump in?
I hear you my friend. I think the ones who don’t agree should disassociate themselves.
I disagree. If you have a thousand snakes in a pit and only 10 are venomous, that does not make it a pit full of venomous snakes. It also does not mean that you have to manually remove all 1000 snakes. Removing venomous snakes is possible and there’s no doubt that they exist. But disregarding 9990 snakes does not make sense either
Sadly that is not the kind of ratio we are talking about here.
I was only replying to the ratio mentioned in the comment prior but I’d love to know your opinion of the current ratio?
From my experience traveling all over the world, my personal guess would be that only about 10% of churches in the ICOC are genuinely pulling away from cultish practices. I also think the number is growing.
And is your perspective that those 10% cannot change the other 90% or is it that the ICOC is too tarnished as a organizational image and needs rebranding?
I think there is a lack of desire to truly change. It is possible to change but one has to want to. In order to do that the leadership would have to face the reality and the spread of the abuse.
Thank you for your words and bravery to speak out. I left over a year ago. I did not fully realize that true hurts of my past in the ICOC would come out gradually and that making the hard decision to leave would not be the hardest part! It is very hard to wrap my mind around the idea that I was in a cult or a cultish church or whatever you want to call it. But facing realities is the only way thru.
Excellent article Nadine, thanks for writing it. I am finding all you write tremendously helpful in navigating my own journey of deconstruction, reconstruction in following Jesus. Much love to you, Mark and family
thanks for saying it loud and clear. I know people have a hard time hearing certain words because they associate it differently. They have emotional attachments and not literal. And surely, "I" could not be involved with this. But yes, just like you, I carry my own guilt for at one time being part of it, and then when I tried to be an agent of change, I found that the "followship" was every bit as much of a problem as anything else. They didn't want things to change in many cases. I was in a position to lead us out of the old ways, and either apathy or rebellion worked against me at every turn.
Thankfully I still see people slowly awakening and walking away. Damaged, but awakening. As always, thanks for speaking up Nadine.
For the last 2 years since I left, I called ICOC a "cult church" and not a "cult", if that makes sense. Cuz cult is a very strong word. I know I've been trying to console myself cuz I've been part of the system for more than 30 years, and it's quite embarrassing to tell my friends that I was a cult member for that long. Moreover, I still have lots of friends and family in ICOC. So it's been quite a journey.
I can understand.
Nadine your voice is powerful. I spent my whole adult life in icoc and never thought of it as a cult. It literally is like drinking the kool aid. Reading this article and coming to grips to what it was, I am in awe that I never saw it as a cult, even when it was destroying my life! And your descriptions accurately identify what was going on in the Boston church of Christ, where I was a member! 💔
I hear you. It is a painful admission when you have given your heart for so many years.
Yes, we once exhibited qualities similar to a cult-like church. Now, we're living in a time where we must face the consequences of our past actions. It feels as though our balloon has burst, leaving us deflated and empty. We are working on mending the present, holding on to the hope that in the future, God will forgive us and restore our lives.
Sadly many of the toxic practices are still going on. Hard to believe but absolutely true.
The fact that the ICOC leaders and members are focusing on mending the present is the problem. Trying to mend the present while denying the past doesn't work but it gives the illusion that something is being done. And, there is enough in the present to acknowledge and deal with but instead, silence prevails.
So true!
Thanks Nadine i left years ago and have no regrets. At the time i did not realize it but it was definitely a cult. You always had to do and be more. It took a long time to get over it and seperate the things thought and the things the Bible actually means. I am glad I did not loose my faith but a lot of people did, though some temporary. Thanks for speaking up and putting it so clearly.
this is Yves Perriard one of the leaders of the Paris icoc i know your brother and his wife very well, woah Nadine glad you had the courage to finally do what i did 30 years ago!!! for me the writing was clearly on the wall back then but even if i knew what was wrong i still had to get rid of a lot of legalism self righteousness and control within the years after i left, this is deep within our nature to want to be like this as i observed this pattern in so many other denominations as well, the icoc just took it to an extreme level, the one thing that eventually helped me quite a lot is to enter into the charismatic dimension of supernatural gifts. when we walk into the power of real NT miracles it forces us to be humble and yet keeps it us excited and passionate ! to be so dependent on God so He can do amazing things that go beyond our own human power is in my view the secret to a more fulfilled life in Christ be blessed and well done !!! welcome to visit us in Israel shalom Yves Perriard
I’m truly empathetic to the experiences of those who have been through much trauma at the hands of the ICOC. There’s no doubt the issues happened and remain. However, labeling the ICOC as a cult seemingly misses the mark. A cult is not just an organization who occasionally displays cultish practices. The ICOC is not uniform in its behavior, stances and actions, it is not a full fledged cult. There are likely many more people who have not experienced cultish behavior with the new version of the ICOC than that have. It mirrors the saying ACAB that all cops are bad. No, not all cops are bad. Some prescient have noble police officers with pure intentions and others dont. That doesn’t mean dismantle the police as we know it. It means reform and working to fix the issues faced because the system, like the ICOC, still does plenty good.
I respect the fact that you may not have experienced too much harm yourself but may I ask what you base your opinion of the whole organization on?
I’m quite sure that you have a much more full, global opinion of the icoc and I fully respect and appreciate that. Being someone in leadership and influential positions gives you a very prominent understanding of what’s going on at the top, you even coordinated several hyc i went on myself. My point lies in the fact that as a member of the icoc, the decisions of leadership at the very top don’t directly trickle down to members all the time. The examples of cult behavior im sure exist in areas at a lower level and they may exist at higher levels to an extent. However, those behaviors are something I’ve never personally seen in several different churches nor heard of from dozens of congregations internationally. Thus, I don’t believe the ICOC can be fully uniform if the behaviors do not match. Hopefully that articulates my viewpoint well. And like everyone has said, thank you Nadine for shedding light on these deep topics
Julien, I am so glad you have not been mistreated. And thank you for engaging in the conversation. I do remember your name from HYC :)
This is fair....but I'd say that ESPECIALLY in Boston, the decisions of leadership do in fact trickle down to members. That's how it works in school systems, military, and corporate environments. Boston campus specifically is big on pushing numbers and they boast about them at every all NE devo I've been to. "We've had ______ baptisms this semester and we're excited to see what God has in store!!!".......*round of thunderous applause*......I am surprised you've never personally seen this behavior, but hopefully it's different in Florida.
Are the retention numbers viewed in the same light? Sure, maybe campus had 100 baptisms in a year, but what about the 40 that left? How many leave right after graduating? What does that say about HOW we study the Bible with people? These are arbitrary numbers, but not totally inaccurate.
It reminds me of car manufactures and recalls. Sure, Ford can flood the market with millions of vehicles, but they have one of the worst recall rates in the world. What does that tell you about the *quality* of said vehicles?
Again, not every region is like this. But it is too common in too many regions just to be swept under the rug.
I’m from Boston, I grew up in the Boston Churches all my life and have been to devos and have dozens of friends living out Boston campus ministry as we speak. I definitely agree it has it’s flaws but Boston is far from a cult. I fully agree that Boston could do a better job of preparing people for discipleship and the rates of falling away is scary high. However, I think a churches flaws does not make it a cult automatically. The description of a cult Mrs. Templer described does not apply to the heavy majority of members in Boston. I personally know the lead evangelist of Boston and I know people in all levels of leadership, none of who embody these traits of a cult. This is not to say Boston is perfect but as a member and looking holistically, it’s innacurate to call Boston as a whole a cult. Not saying other ICOC churches are the same though
Julien, communication is incredibly difficult and challenging to do well. I read what you wrote three times before responding.
The word "cult" can validate many people's experiences--thousands and thousands--and it can also bewilder and alienate many others in the ICOC--perhaps many thousands as well.
Not everyone has (or had)the same experience in the ICOC.
When I work with families I often point out that just because all siblings had the same parents doesn't mean they had the same parents in terms of experience and relationship with those parents.
I would ask you to consider that if someone uses the word "cult" to describe the ICOC to have an ongoing discussion with them, be curious about why they would use that word, and if the core of what they are trying to communicate has enough accuracy to merit attention and further discussion.
You wrote, "The ICOC is not uniform in its behavior, stances and actions..."
I would ask you to consider that the ICOC is uniform in its behavior, stances, and actions, and has a long-standing pattern of being uniform in ways that have wreaked havoc in many lives.
One pattern is ignoring systemic corruption and horrific actions and even denying them. I could give examples, but do I need to?
P.S. Thank you for speaking up. This is an important discussion Nadine has put the spotlight on.
I’m also slightly confused. You said people have different experiences with the ICOC and then in the same message said that it’s entirely uniform. Perhaps i am misunderstanding but this seems contradictory
I understand how this would be confusing. Individual churches are trying to reform but overall the institution remains very cultish. There is still some sort of central leadership, even though it is not as influential as it used to be. But there is still central control to a large extent. The ICOC still hosts global conferences where the teaching is pretty uniform. Again some are trying to change, and I recognize that.
Julien, I could have been more clear. Let me try again.
The ICOC is uniform and has set patterns in many ways but not all ways.
Yet, even when Kip was ruling the ICOC, not all members had the same experience. Not all members have been horrifically abused as many of those who left. That is true today. There are still patterns of abuse in the system and in local churches by local leaders.
What uniformity is there still?
How about how all the local ICOC churches deal with scandal, accusations, reports of abuse and corruption and so on?
I expect that, by far, the ICOC churches will continue to ignore Nadine's exposes' of the ICOC culture and Leadership patterns of lies, hiding things, and protecting abusers. Not a word will be said from the pulpit or on their websites.
Not a single leader is publicly responding to what Nadine has written. All of the public responses regarding the lawsuits have been written by attorneys and none even acknowledge there was abuse and that it was covered up.
That is a uniform pattern. It is intentional.
As Nadine says in comments below: "There is still some sort of central leadership, even though it is not as influential as it used to be. But there is still central control to a large extent. The ICOC still hosts global conferences where the teaching is pretty uniform."
Individual ICOC leaders say often there is no formal ICOC today and no central leadership--that's what is said when they get an uncomfortable question posed to them.
Yet, when they want to dispose of the Portland church and eliminate the influence of Steve and Lisa Johnson, the central leadership makes it happen.
As Nadine says, there is great effort to keep uniform teaching. Any church or leader that deviates from that on any central doctrine will be dealt with by the ICOC central leadership. Just because one person isn't at the helm and clearly recognized doesn't mean the ICOC isn't being steered and led by the leaders today that have the power to act.
Ask Douglas Jacoby if that isn't true.
Ask Steve and Lisa Johnson.
There is uniformity of teaching and uniformity of how to deal with dissenters of that teaching.
(Do you think recognized Teachers in the ICOC have felt free to speak up and go public with their views on things that went against mainstream ICOC teaching? They are afraid to speak up and rightfully so.)
There is uniformity of denying abuse and failing to make amends.
I can name many individuals and families who were horrifically abused by the most senior ICOC leaders. There has never been any accountability for these things, much less justice.
That is a uniform pattern across all ICOC churches.
Just for clarification, the idea that every church in the ICOC is uniform is a false statement. Personally, when I speak of the ICOC, I refer to the collection of churches. That is why I was confused when you said "the ICOC is uniform in its behavior, stances, and action". Perhaps you were referring to something different than I and we had a misunderstanding because of that
I've personally heard, from the pulpit in Boston, denouncing abuse and sin amid the recent allegations. I implore leaders across the ICOC to deny the abuse and to make amends, just as you said.
Why did Doug leave the icoc?
I don't think he ever left the ICOC. It's my understanding that he makes his living primarily off of ICOC churches and members via his teaching ministry.
I would stand by my statement that the ICOC is not fully uniform. I don’t think it’s fair to say that it is uniform unless you’ve been to every single congregation and seen the similarities. I myself have been to many different congregations and seen drastic differences in the way different churches operate.
I’d like to reiterate that I’m not saying people did not experience cult behavior but labeling an organization from top to bottom and left to right as a cult doesn’t seem to be as accurate of a depiction as possible.
I agree that the ICOC isn't fully uniform. But Nadine has been all around the world over the course of many years. And even in places she has not been, she's still had significant impact. I'd say she has grounds to stand on concerning the similarities she's witnessed. Just my two cents.
Thank you. I am not saying this to brag but I am probably the most connected person globally. I speak with both leaders and regular members all over the world, so I probably have a more accurate picture than anyone in the ICOC. I have indeed traveled all over the globe in the last ten years. Even though I speak and write with conviction, I love the church and the people in it. My goal is not to destroy the church but for the abuse and dysfunction to stop, so that more people don’t get hurt.
I believe with the weight of your experience, more people should listen. I have listened to your podcasts, articles, and blogs and love doing so and learning more from each one of them. I hope my respect for your wisdom and knowledge comes through, even if I disagree with parts of your assessment that contrast my personal experiences
Julien, I don't think anyone said the ICOC is FULLY uniform.
Yet, we don't have to go to every single church to know there are patterns within the ICOC system.
Generalizations can be accurate even though they are just that, generalizations.
Yes, generalizations are great. My point is that the effects of cult behavior in higher up leadership do not always trickle down so at the top, I fully trust what Nadine is saying. And I am sure it trickles down in some places. But I think there are many examples of it(the cult behavior described) not trickling down and that's important to note.
I get that. I think if more people, including leaders (especially), would admit to the patterns of abuse and how many people have been damaged, and give attention to making amends, more "critics" would agree that there are good things to note as well.
The leaders responded to the H.K. Letter because they knew denying it and ignoring it would be their downfall. That's not so today, so it's easy to ignore the current systemic patterns of corruption and abuse. They ignore such because they can.