wow! definitely relate to all of this! I remember leadership talking about bringing in all the “sharp”, successful people”! and we were one of them! at the time my former husband made quite a lot of money, and subsequently, we GAVE quite a lot of money! (probably more than some people made in a year!) we were hoisted into leadership six months after being baptized!
I’ve witnessed ALL of what you talk about! I look back with a great deal of shame and regret, although I always had a soft spot for the less fortunate. At one point my ministry consisted of a dozen single moms! I would hope those we served remember us as loving, compassionate friends. I’m still in touch with several of them. In fact, even though I’m part of another congregation now, many of my closest friends are still part of the ICOC… some have gone to other churches, but I remain close with all of them.
All I can say about this very true account (and the red flags) is, “if you see something, say something”! and whilst it may cause some controversy, we are accountable to God, and God alone!
"Lawd a merci" thank you Nadine, for posting elements of this article. It's very sad to think that we as God believers have uninvited Jesus to his church. I think the main problem is bad hermenutics.
We have been conditioned to do and beleive whatever our leaders say, because the bible says so and you'll go to hell if you don't. We haven't been taught how to read nor inteprete the scriptures, so certain verses are used to coerce obediance.
Think about that old chestnut in Hebrews 13: 17, to obey your leaders. That verse has probably been used more than any other verse in the bible. Yet is this a call for blind obediance? What if an individual was asked to something that hurt their conscience, harmful even? Are still supposed to blindy obey ? We need to start with good hermenutics, period.
I get it, that we were all young and did stupid things in the name of Christ, but most of us are pensioners now, surely we can admit where we've. gone wrong and commit to better practices.
Sadly, it seems not. Not every church. But one is too much. There's a church here in the UK which has effectivly driven out many of its members. Some of these members have complained about the lhe leaders lying about things, defaming others and outright bullying tactics-during COVID one particular member was shut out of the services held on zoom calls. What in the world is happening here? Teenagers who were studying the bible had no option but to leave with their parents. Where was the love?
Church, you know who you are. You have caused a great deal of pain to people wh believe and love God. REPENT please, do not harm these people's faith any longer. You yourselves may have been hurt, and hurt people hurt people. If this is the ase , I'm sorry for whatever hurts you have been put through . Bu please meet these people halfway. They have been let down badly by the authority who is meant to be overseeing the churh affairs, but you can change that. You know who you are.
We all drank the cool aid, so don't feel like you are alone. We all bare some form of responsibilty.
OK I'll stop now. I have faith that God wants there to be peace and harmony between his children, so I will continue to hold out hope in this particular situation.
Once again Nadine thank you for shedding light on where we as a church have grieved God. May our Lord grant us repentance!
I wish they could see the harm done to these people. The trauma, the resetllement anguish, the loss of people they thought were their friends. The trauma is real and very painful.
So I lived in the UK for about 3 years - was often between the Midlands and London.
I heard about some of the issues that led to 2003 - sounded pretty bad with added complications my home church wouldn’t really experience (like racial issues - we have our own problems tho).
Sad to hear that the issues persist after all this time.
The UK ICOC is complicated and not the same everywhere. Some churches are very old school and controlling. Some groups are different and pretty much doing their own thing. It has been very messy.
Oh did I forget to mention that the out of the thirty or so people who felt that they had no option but to leave , that they were predominantly Black? MMME!!
It's strange to read this now and see what was normalised under false commitment, poor leadership and doublestandards. I've held those very same damaging attitudes and legalistic approaches. The fact that the idea that church should be a place of safety, accountability, mature leadership and general kindness feels so foreign and unattainable shows how far the drift is and that what will eventually be left as it all cracks wide open is people protecting themselves and their own kingdoms.
God have mercy on us all, we your people have sinned greatly against you.
Nadine, thanks to your articles, I’m able to articulate what happened to me in ICOC. Despite of my anger caused by seeing things crystal clear now, I know JESUS is healing me.
wow! definitely relate to all of this! I remember leadership talking about bringing in all the “sharp”, successful people”! and we were one of them! at the time my former husband made quite a lot of money, and subsequently, we GAVE quite a lot of money! (probably more than some people made in a year!) we were hoisted into leadership six months after being baptized!
I’ve witnessed ALL of what you talk about! I look back with a great deal of shame and regret, although I always had a soft spot for the less fortunate. At one point my ministry consisted of a dozen single moms! I would hope those we served remember us as loving, compassionate friends. I’m still in touch with several of them. In fact, even though I’m part of another congregation now, many of my closest friends are still part of the ICOC… some have gone to other churches, but I remain close with all of them.
All I can say about this very true account (and the red flags) is, “if you see something, say something”! and whilst it may cause some controversy, we are accountable to God, and God alone!
"Lawd a merci" thank you Nadine, for posting elements of this article. It's very sad to think that we as God believers have uninvited Jesus to his church. I think the main problem is bad hermenutics.
We have been conditioned to do and beleive whatever our leaders say, because the bible says so and you'll go to hell if you don't. We haven't been taught how to read nor inteprete the scriptures, so certain verses are used to coerce obediance.
Think about that old chestnut in Hebrews 13: 17, to obey your leaders. That verse has probably been used more than any other verse in the bible. Yet is this a call for blind obediance? What if an individual was asked to something that hurt their conscience, harmful even? Are still supposed to blindy obey ? We need to start with good hermenutics, period.
I get it, that we were all young and did stupid things in the name of Christ, but most of us are pensioners now, surely we can admit where we've. gone wrong and commit to better practices.
Sadly, it seems not. Not every church. But one is too much. There's a church here in the UK which has effectivly driven out many of its members. Some of these members have complained about the lhe leaders lying about things, defaming others and outright bullying tactics-during COVID one particular member was shut out of the services held on zoom calls. What in the world is happening here? Teenagers who were studying the bible had no option but to leave with their parents. Where was the love?
Church, you know who you are. You have caused a great deal of pain to people wh believe and love God. REPENT please, do not harm these people's faith any longer. You yourselves may have been hurt, and hurt people hurt people. If this is the ase , I'm sorry for whatever hurts you have been put through . Bu please meet these people halfway. They have been let down badly by the authority who is meant to be overseeing the churh affairs, but you can change that. You know who you are.
We all drank the cool aid, so don't feel like you are alone. We all bare some form of responsibilty.
OK I'll stop now. I have faith that God wants there to be peace and harmony between his children, so I will continue to hold out hope in this particular situation.
Once again Nadine thank you for shedding light on where we as a church have grieved God. May our Lord grant us repentance!
And everybody knows what church you are talking about sadly!
Yet there is no accountability!
I wish they could see the harm done to these people. The trauma, the resetllement anguish, the loss of people they thought were their friends. The trauma is real and very painful.
I am on the phone daily with people with similar stories all over the world.
So I lived in the UK for about 3 years - was often between the Midlands and London.
I heard about some of the issues that led to 2003 - sounded pretty bad with added complications my home church wouldn’t really experience (like racial issues - we have our own problems tho).
Sad to hear that the issues persist after all this time.
The UK ICOC is complicated and not the same everywhere. Some churches are very old school and controlling. Some groups are different and pretty much doing their own thing. It has been very messy.
This is sad. So sorry to hear this. 🙏🏽
Oh did I forget to mention that the out of the thirty or so people who felt that they had no option but to leave , that they were predominantly Black? MMME!!
Not surprising. I am fully aware of the situation in question.
It's strange to read this now and see what was normalised under false commitment, poor leadership and doublestandards. I've held those very same damaging attitudes and legalistic approaches. The fact that the idea that church should be a place of safety, accountability, mature leadership and general kindness feels so foreign and unattainable shows how far the drift is and that what will eventually be left as it all cracks wide open is people protecting themselves and their own kingdoms.
God have mercy on us all, we your people have sinned greatly against you.
There’s no faith in control- freakiness. If there’s no faith in leaders, why be lead by them?
Nadine, thanks to your articles, I’m able to articulate what happened to me in ICOC. Despite of my anger caused by seeing things crystal clear now, I know JESUS is healing me.